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K-Roll931
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 Posts: 76 Location: Southfield, MI
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: Replacing the Rear Main Seal?? |
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Having done the oil pan gasket on my '80 931, it seems I've discovered a potentially leaking RMS as a result. Unfortunately, there seems to be little to no information, instructions, or visual aid in explaining how to this job.
Can anyone give me an idea of the process, what needs to be done, and how to do it? I want to educate myself on this job as best I can before I get to it; and assume this job should be the same on all 2.0L cars. _________________ '80 931 M471 - Dolomite Gray -> Monaco Blue |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2645 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Brother, that sucks. My advice, pull the motor and do it all, or at least all you can afford. These engines leak like sieves over time, it's rare to find one that doesn't. The rear main can't be done in-situ so there is little choice..
Leigh _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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K-Roll931
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 Posts: 76 Location: Southfield, MI
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Kenodog wrote: | Brother, that sucks. My advice, pull the motor and do it all, or at least all you can afford. These engines leak like sieves over time, it's rare to find one that doesn't. The rear main can't be done in-situ so there is little choice..
Leigh |
Unfortunately, pulling the engine will be a no-go. No space for an engine puller...Gonna have to do this the hard way according from everything I've researched over the last two hours. Pull the trans, drop the rear suspension, slide the torque tube rearwards, remove the bellhousing and I think this car is either my spirit animal or the death of me.
I'm gonna owe Vaughan a lotta beers for help on this one. _________________ '80 931 M471 - Dolomite Gray -> Monaco Blue |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2645 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Rear suspension ? Remove the snailshell, pull the tt back, drop the bell housing and the remover the oil pan which *sometimes* means lowering the cross member. Then maybe...
But, if it doesn't go together perfectly it may still leak. That's the issue I have had in the past with doing things like that. It is just so damned hard to get all of those surfaces clean enough to get the proper seal.
Hats off to you for trying though. Let us know how it goes !
Leg _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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K-Roll931
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 Posts: 76 Location: Southfield, MI
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Oh right, the suspension can stay, thank goodness. The rest of this will be hell though. We're gonna make this work one way or another, and I'll make sure to document this process. Before I know it, this car will basically be brand-spankin new! _________________ '80 931 M471 - Dolomite Gray -> Monaco Blue |
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jacobroufa
Joined: 18 Nov 2016 Posts: 529 Location: Belvidere, IL
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm curious how you have the capacity to remove the torque tube and trans and rear suspension but not the engine? o_O
Good luck! |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2600 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:48 am Post subject: |
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I did the clutch a while ago, which is more or less the same work. I did it with engine still in place, gearbox(snail) still attached to the torque tube, suspension all in place. Although I took of the drive shafts and gear linkage so I could slide the torque tube back.
Then it was just a matter of removing exhaust, waste gate, starter motor and all that stuff. I think i removed coil etc from above to reach some of the screws on the bell housing. And i think i lowered the engine by backing out the nuts on the motor mounts. Then I could remove the bell housing and do job. It sounds easy but its a b**** of a job to do, took me a day to disasemble and another full day in the garage to put it together again, everything is so tightly packaged. Many new swear words will pop out, but its doable. It really really helps if you are two people when the ttube and engine are supposed to be mated again, took me ages to do since i was alone under the car.
I definitely prefer the engine out version, as you can do alot of other nice to do stuff at the same time, hoses, gaskets etc. But i jus thad the engine out so wasnt so keen on that. _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2645 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Cédric wrote: | I did the clutch a while ago, which is more or less the same work. I did it with engine still in place, gearbox(snail) still attached to the torque tube, suspension all in place. Although I took of the drive shafts and gear linkage so I could slide the torque tube back.
Then it was just a matter of removing exhaust, waste gate, starter motor and all that stuff. I think i removed coil etc from above to reach some of the screws on the bell housing. And i think i lowered the engine by backing out the nuts on the motor mounts. Then I could remove the bell housing and do job. It sounds easy but its a b**** of a job to do, took me a day to disasemble and another full day in the garage to put it together again, everything is so tightly packaged. Many new swear words will pop out, but its doable. It really really helps if you are two people when the ttube and engine are supposed to be mated again, took me ages to do since i was alone under the car.
I definitely prefer the engine out version, as you can do alot of other nice to do stuff at the same time, hoses, gaskets etc. But i jus thad the engine out so wasnt so keen on that. |
*NEW* swear words ?! Amateur....
Yes, the work needed either way is about the same.But like Cedric says once the motor is out you get the benefit of being about to do the job properly the first time as well as replace / refurbish some of the other things that are not normally accessible.
Me _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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Fifty50Plus
Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Posts: 1353 Location: Washington DC area
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:26 am Post subject: |
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While you have the flywheel off, replace the input shaft bearing. _________________ 1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
1981 924 Turbo a real PoS, new engine
1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 8794 Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Actually suspecting first to check and make sure there isn't a breather problem causing rear main to leak. Kinked/obstructed hose etc. _________________ Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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K-Roll931
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 Posts: 76 Location: Southfield, MI
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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A slightly more extensive search for the cause of the leak revealed the distributor housing on the back of the head is leaking oil and dripping down to where I originally discovered the oil. I might not have torqued all three bolts tight enough, or the gasket failed, or something else. Gonna have to inspect further. _________________ '80 931 M471 - Dolomite Gray -> Monaco Blue |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 1227 Location: Maysville, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure it isn't the oil pressure sender as they can really be a problem also. A distributor housing can easily be leak can easily be mistaken for the OPS. _________________ Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 8794 Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed.
Pretty sure we used the purple thread sealant on the OPS threads, so no worries there... but we were struggling to get the right bolts for that rear housing.
Trying to avoid having to pull the cam to replace the gasket again - firewall clearance usually prevents it from coming free otherwise.
And with the temps soon to hit single digits in the D, the last thing we want to be doing is teardown and trying to reset ignition timing etc... _________________ Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 8794 Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Follow-up on this - leak fixed, not the rear main, nor a plugged breather, just the distributor housing not fully torqued. Just those pesky back bolts... torqued 'em yesterday with an assortment of flex-head ratchets etc, and she seems to have stopped leaking oil there.
Only remaining leak is one oil cooler hose, which probably got moved a little more than it wanted while the turbo was being removed/reinstalled. Though I don't blame Karl, to be sure - we found the old turbo drain hose was so hardened from age it split as we took it apart.
Which I guess does raise the question, if we should perhaps play it safe and replace both oil cooler hose sections, not just the one...
The one that's leaking is just weeping a modest amount of oil, from under one of the crimps...
Getting close to being ready to hit the road, though! Too bad the weather's not cooperating... _________________ Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 2645 Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:42 am Post subject: |
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If y'all need lines I have about 5 good sets. A set is yours for the shipping...
Leigh _________________ 1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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