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gerben1986
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 232
Location: The Netherlands
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 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| TJC wrote: | | Harm wrote: | | TJC wrote: | | Just a quick update...received an email from Germany this morning and Porsche #924-004 is indeed still with the factory as suspected. |
Isn't it frame number 4 of the 7 tube-frames that were build in the states?
Member Tom D might know since back in the day he worked as a pit crew member and used to help prep GTU cars for racing at pro motion's shop in Santa Ana Ca.
Just my 2 cents.
That 924 looks amazing! 
Cheers, Harm. |
Hi Harm,
The 924-004 car that I am referencing is one of the three (with 924-002 and 924-003) that Porsche built and prepped for the 1980 LeMans race and I was curious about this car on eBay because of it's ID number. At the time this car was built in 1981 I do not remember any of the cars being tube frame as I think that development came a couple of years later and was not yet allowed. At the time I was working for Ralph Kent Cooke (Cooke-Woods and Condor Racing) and I'll have to see if I still have any rule books from that time to confirm as I could very well be wrong..."Olds-timer's syndrome" hee, hee!!! |
But this means that the car on Ebay isn't the real 004, and hasn't been racing on LeMans? Because that would drop the value of the car dramatically, isnt? Or is the story a little bit different?
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911SC - 1980 |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| gerben1986 wrote: | | TJC wrote: | | Harm wrote: | | TJC wrote: | | Just a quick update...received an email from Germany this morning and Porsche #924-004 is indeed still with the factory as suspected. |
Isn't it frame number 4 of the 7 tube-frames that were build in the states?
Member Tom D might know since back in the day he worked as a pit crew member and used to help prep GTU cars for racing at pro motion's shop in Santa Ana Ca.
Just my 2 cents.
That 924 looks amazing!
Cheers, Harm. |
Hi Harm,
The 924-004 car that I am referencing is one of the three (with 924-002 and 924-003) that Porsche built and prepped for the 1980 LeMans race and I was curious about this car on eBay because of it's ID number. At the time this car was built in 1981 I do not remember any of the cars being tube frame as I think that development came a couple of years later and was not yet allowed. At the time I was working for Ralph Kent Cooke (Cooke-Woods and Condor Racing) and I'll have to see if I still have any rule books from that time to confirm as I could very well be wrong..."Olds-timer's syndrome" hee, hee!!! |
But this means that the car on Ebay isn't the real 004, and hasn't been racing on LeMans? Because that would drop the value of the car dramatically, isnt? Or is the story a little bit different? |
The car on eBay was not built by or at the Porsche factory in Germany. It is a car that was built here in America at Holbert's shop. Holbert acquired bare shells from Porsche as well as other parts to assemble race cars for certain race series that were being campaigned here at any time. Considering the importance of the American sales market and the success of the racing endeavors and retail sales at Holbert's it's not at all surprising that the Porsche factory would favor Holbert's in such a manner...not to mention the condition of the economic condition of Germany, or Europe in general, during the late 70's and early 80's. Meaning basically in today's terms...Porsche outsourced their American racing activities to Holbert's and others in this country...at the time it made sense from a marketing and economic standpoint.
So, no, this car on eBay is not the car that Porsche built which carries the VIN 924-004, that car is most definitely still with Porsche in Germany, but it is a car that was built here in the States and has a racing history, as stated by the seller, and quite frankly I think it would be to the seller's benefit to provide logbooks and more of the racing history and results to back up this car's history...but that's just what I may do if I were representing this car.
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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gerben1986
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 232
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| TJC wrote: | The car on eBay was not built by or at the Porsche factory in Germany. It is a car that was built here in America at Holbert's shop. Holbert acquired bare shells from Porsche as well as other parts to assemble race cars for certain race series that were being campaigned here at any time. Considering the importance of the American sales market and the success of the racing endeavors and retail sales at Holbert's it's not at all surprising that the Porsche factory would favor Holbert's in such a manner...not to mention the condition of the economic condition of Germany, or Europe in general, during the late 70's and early 80's. Meaning basically in today's terms...Porsche outsourced their American racing activities to Holbert's and others in this country...at the time it made sense from a marketing and economic standpoint.
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Thanks for your very clear explanation 
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:30 am Post subject: |
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$101,100.00 Reserve not met, but a fairly strong price for eBay...I didn't expect it to get that high and that may be a good thing.
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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emoore924
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2822
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Heck, I'd buy it for that all day long.
Of course, that's not close to what the seller was expecting but perhaps the intent was not to sell but to generate buzz for next to nothing...
There's more than one way to market a car... |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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The seller may have wanted more, but as of yesterday with the buyers who shop on eBay worldwide, they said the car was only worth $101k! Yes, market the car differently (read better), on a different day and at a different location and the buyers may have deeper pockets. But you cannot deny that the market has spoken. Fell a long way short of the original $189k even before it was raised to $229k. Was Drendell car sold last year a factory or Holbert car?
Think I'd rather save some cash and buy a $60-70k CGT or spend more on a $200k CGTS and be able to drive them on the road and track at will.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Northwestern-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | The seller may have wanted more, but as of yesterday with the buyers who shop on eBay worldwide, they said the car was only worth $101k! Yes, market the car differently (read better), on a different day and at a different location and the buyers may have deeper pockets. But you cannot deny that the market has spoken. Fell a long way short of the original $189k even before it was raised to $229k. Was Drendell car sold last year a factory or Holbert car?
Think I'd rather save some cash and buy a $60-70k CGT or spend more on a $200k CGTS and be able to drive them on the road and track at will. |
The Drendel car was a true Porsche built race car #924-003 which ran at LeMans in 1980 with Derek Bell and Al Holbert driving. They placed 13th in the "Stars and Stripes" car. The two other 924s entered by Porsche were 924-002 driven by Tony Dron and Andy Rouse in the British car placing 12th and Jurgen Barth and Manfred Schurti in 924-004, the German car, placing 6th.
As an aside, Porsche decided to "Nationalize" the cars and drivers as a tribute for their support. Bell was originally set to drive in 924-002 but was substituted for Peter Gregg in 924-003 because Gregg was involved in a non-racing car accident and couldn't drive at LeMans.
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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emoore924
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2822
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But you cannot deny that the market has spoken. |
Well, THAT market might have spoken. But not everyone shops on eBay  |
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Harm
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 1376
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Craigslist find of the day… |
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jason c
Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 1018
Location: Nwi
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Did anyone notice Hurley Haywood mentions (or possibly) this car in the carrera book? |
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tomjshore
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Ocean, NJ
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| The new book by Roy Smith has tons of information about this car. The book talks about its race and driver history and mentions how it had a lot of good race results. The book should add a lot of value to this car. |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2312
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| emoore924 wrote: | | Quote: | | But you cannot deny that the market has spoken. |
Well, THAT market might have spoken. But not everyone shops on eBay |
But did I not also say market it differently, on a different day at a different location and buyers may have deeper pockets!! 
My guess is a deal will be done off ebay directly with the vendor. A relatively cheap and dirty way of getting the car noticed. Any discerning buyer would not be placing a blind bid on ebay in my view.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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Harm
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 1376
Location: Holland
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