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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:04 am Post subject: way to test Warm Up Regulator? wur cold start electric test |
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1. Cold Start Valve: I found instructions and I was able to do the physical temperature test on my cold start valve, which opened and closed with temperature (unrelated to electrical connections to it). ANyone know a way to test it's electrical operation- which spade is which- etc?
2. WUR - MORE Important (I think)-
I was able to pull and clean the WUR (without being able to remove the black inside disc/cylinder thing in which the fuel travels, due to stuck screws on it. however, fuel does pass through it when I blast it)
QUESTION: Is there a TEST for the warm up regulator? I couldn't find anything except "unplug it and see if there's a difference." Well, since my car runs smooth after warming up for 5 minutes, I don't think that would tell me much.
I REALLY APPRECIATE advice, thanks in advance!
(I'm waiting on valve stem seals to arrive in a couple days, possibly related to my rough starting after sittng a few hours, and then some smoke if overnight)
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81 924 non-turbo |
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larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| jdub wrote: | | Is there a TEST for the warm up regulator? |
Running a series of tests for the system and control pressure with the CIS test gauge set-up via the Hanes Manual gives the best information about system pressure regulation.
But you can do a quick electrical test of the heater coil of the warm-up regulator: test the resistance across the terminals and you should get around 35 ohms or so. Infinite resistance or no resistance indicates failure of the coil.
| jdub wrote: | | Cold Start Valve: ... ANyone know a way to test ... |
The cold start value essentially works like an electronic injector but isn't pulsed and only operates briefly with one pulse at start-up in a cool engine. It does tend to clog more often than a typical injector.
To test, with the fuel line still attached, remove it (not easy). The terminals are positive and ground (see below for possible wire colors). With the engine off, jump the fuel pump relay and ground one terminal and apply (Battery +) voltage to the other (it doesn't matter which is which). The valve should have a good injector-like spray pattern as long as voltage is applied and should not leak after disconnection. If it does, then a new one is necessary.
| jdub wrote: | | .. which spade is which ... |
The 1981 wiring diagram I found is in bad shape with the actual wire colors hard to read, but it might be that the Ye/Re and Re/Bl leads come from the starter and supplementary start valve respectively and the ground is not the case itself but the Re/Wh wire going to the thermo switch.
Last edited by larchie on Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ThomasJoseph315
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Cold Start Valve:
If he CSV is working properly and not dripping chances are you have the same issue that a lot of people in this board have. The thermo switch go bad after a while and gets sluggish. Mine did that as well. In one of your other posts I talked about a momentary switch I mounted on the dash for this. You live in AZ and I in LA your prolly a little warmer then me. If this is it, You will notice this issue more often in the months ahead. All I did was "T" into the ground wire on my CSV and wire it up to the dash and then to the ground cluster under the dash behind the fuse panel. Whenever my car give me grief I just hold down the button and crank it, it starts right up every time. All you would be doing is bypassing the thermoswitch as that is a switch for ground anyway.
WUR:
Check your screens inside where the fuel lines connect. Mine where clogged to hell. I simply removed them. There is like 4 or 5 of them in there, the top one looked sorta alright, even after I blasted it with brake cleaner. But, when I got down to other layers it was pretty crusty. I even went the extra mile and pulled mine apart and cleaned it. I'd pull the screens and blast it with brake cleaner in the opposite direction the fuel flow first though. Stick the straw of the can right in the hole and blast away.
Beware, your car will run richer after this you just dial back the A/F. I passed emissions without them in.
Last edited by ThomasJoseph315 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KDJones2000
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 322
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Same thing here, only never did the emissions thing...
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1987 924S SPEC car
Team Toofah Racing
1988 944 Turbo S |
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ThomasJoseph315
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| larchie wrote: | | jdub wrote: | | Is there a TEST for the warm up regulator? |
But you can do a quick electrical test of the heater coil of the warm-up regulator: test the resistance across the terminals and you should get around 35 ohms or so. Infinite resistance or no resistance indicates failure of the coil. |
That's a good idea, I checked mine as well, but if his car is running normally after a few mins that means it's working. If it was sluggish or no change in running condition this would be suspect.
If he's cranking the hell out of this thing to get it started and the CSV isn't firing due to that known issue with the thermo switch, he could still be flooding it through the normal injectors as the engine isn't moving fast enough to suck in oxygen to burn all the fuel. Every time the engine turns over he would get a spray of fuel. I think mine did that too before I put the switch in. Jdub does it take like 2-4 mins to start your car? An easy test would to be jump the ground terminals on the thermo switch, but myself, after reading all the issues just went for the gusto and poped in the momentary switch and it worked like a charm.
Also,... You can't use a normal valve spring compressor. See my large post for the one I got. Get the $53 one. |
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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: thanks |
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i have some good testing to do 2night and will get back Thank!
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81 924 non-turbo |
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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: solved- but Thermo Switch Part? |
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So while crankin my battery dead after work i thought I'd try grounding one spade on the cold start injector in case it was just the switch mentioned. Sure enough, fired right up.
Now , i cant find that actual part name or # for the switch, (without it just showing the cooling fan thermo switch instead). thanks!
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81 924 non-turbo
Last edited by jdub on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ThomasJoseph315
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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 now you know why I wired it to the dash.. I wouldn't leave that perminantly grounded, you would use the injector all the time and burn it out and possibly flood the engine through that. On my car if it doesn't fire up on the first crank then I hold down the swith and she starts up then. Think of it as an electronic/manual choke. I think that switch is NLA, but you might be able to find a used one. But who's to say that won't be burned out as well. |
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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: cold start injector is fine- but no positive to it? switch? |
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uh oh,
i'm noticing the female connectors seem to not have a positive juice on either one (one is a strong ground, constantly)
I tested the cold start injector and it sprays fine jumped
however, there is never any positive juice going to it on the connectors (female)
Is this because that only happens when it gets colder? I thought the thermo switches only gave it a ground, not a positive?
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81 924 non-turbo
Last edited by jdub on Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ThomasJoseph315
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep in mind there is a few things going on. If your testing to see if that switch works test at the thermo switch. However, there is a timed circut for the injector that when it is activated it only sprays for 10 seconds then stops. When I do a manual over ride, sometimes once and a great while it still doesn't catch. When that happends I got to wait 2-3mins for the circut to reset. Your prolly catching the last few seconds of the circut running then it turns off. Get a friend or put the volt meter in the window so you can see it. If your catching voltage and it turns off you should notice it turning off consistantly. |
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larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jdub wrote: | | I tested the cold start injector and it sprays fine jumped however, there is never any positive juice going to it on the connectors (female) Is this because that only happens when it gets colder? I thought the thermo switches only gave it a ground, not a positive? |
The cold start injector is solenoid-operated and gets voltage only when the key is in the "start" position and operates when grounded by the thermo time switch. The switch limits the opening of the injector to about 8 seconds maximum when very cold in order to prevent flooding. If the engine is warm the injector remains closed -- regardless. So, again, whenever the thermo time switch is cold, the bi-metal switch is closed; when warm, it is open.
In sum, when the key is turned to "start" the electric coil inside the thermo time switch which winds around a bi-metal strip heats and closes the circuit so the injector is powered when the engine is cold. The closed switch grounds the circuit and fuel is delivered by the start injector. When the engine is warm the cold start valve does not operate.
Check the plug socket for continuity to the battery. The terminals:
"W" and "G" Terminals located by tabs on plug
(after Weber, Solving Bosh CIS Problems 1992)
Obviously, ThomasJoseph315's circuit is wired differently from jdub's circuit. and so in some respects operates differently. |
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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:26 am Post subject: WUR Ohm resistance Q |
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Larchie-
on the other part, the bigger Warm Up regulator , you mentioned an ohms restistance of like 35. Q: does 10.5 ohms resistance from one spade to the other sound okay (car a little warm, but not running nor hot)?
I will do further checking of cold start later tonight.
Thanks!
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larchie
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| jdub wrote: | | ... does 10.5 ohms resistance from one spade to the other sound okay (car a little warm, but not running nor hot)? |
Sure -- what is being measured is the resistance of heater coil wire which causes a bimetal spring to bend and raise control pressure. Higher control pressure leans the mixture.
Resistance of the heater wire would vary depending on a number of factors, including the temperature of the wire. As I recall the resistance you measured is closer to the value Hanes gives. (The 35 ohms I suggested comes from a Bosch publication.) Nevertheless, the important tests for the WUR are the primary/control pressure tests and leak down tests |
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jdub
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 72
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:41 am Post subject: |
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ok, i'm now back on this
concerning the cold start injector above diagrammed byLarchie.
i have 3 wires going to the 2 spades.
do you know which of the 3 wires you put your jumper ground switch onto?( cold start injector) i have 2 wires going to one spade (driversside of plug, and one single wire (red/white). thanks!!
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ThomasJoseph315
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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