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Feeler: Group buy for Lightweight Rods
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Elektrobank  



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Location: Pozzuoli,Napoli, Italy

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gegge wrote:
When I asked Sten about the price he told me €90-100 each depending on exclusive rights to the design. That is incl. VAT in the EU area. ARP bolts are included of course


i'll be in for a set shipped to Italy...but i'd like to know more about rod's specification ....but.... 90-100 eur looks too cheap for me...

let me know
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MillsMotorsport  



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they're similar to the Crower rod, I'd be interested in one set for sure, maybe two sets.

Not that I want to "dis" the Diamond pistons that Dan has sourced, but I have a preference for JE forged pistons (rightly or wrongly, I belive they have better metallurgy than most, other than Mahle). So if we had a set of rods that would suit an off the shelf forged piston from something current and widely available (like 86.5 or 87mm Nissan SR20 Turbo pistons) rather than a custom "931" piston.

If we went with a rod to suit the SR20 (for example) piston, then we'd have a huge amount of piston choice in the future and security of supply for many years to come. It would also help the 924 (NA) guys, as NA pistons for the SR20DE are widely available too.

I am rebuilding one, posibly two engines at the moment, so I definatley want one set, and if they suited an "off the shelf" aftermarket forged piston from something else suitable, even better!
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the_mad_electrician  



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with using aftermarket pistons from another car is the compression hight on the 924 is pretty high. I looked at several options and didn't find anthing close enough.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're doing custom rods, getting the rod maker to do a custom set with a different center-to-center length is no big deal. I can get the Crower style rod in any length I want with no difference in price. The trick is getting all of the other dimensions correct. So I still say the path to take is to replicate the critical dimensions of a stock rod for anyone not changing out pistons, and then the guys who want to use something other than OEM or the Diamond upgrades I've been sourcing can simply specify the appropriate rod length to accommodate the compression height of the piston they choose to run.
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1246
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After much mulling of rod bolts vs rods, sign me up for a set of rods.
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tyfighter123  



Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP!
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1124
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me know what you want and I´ll do what´s required to get it done!

I´m in for at least two sets if close to stock. And that´s 8 of 30 if you get the point...

$/€ 100 each means $/€ 400 for a set. To clarify. Cheap or not, you decide.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the rods all have to have exactly the same dimensions, or can guys order up whatever dims they want?
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tyfighter123  



Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
$/€ 100 each means $/€ 400 for a set. To clarify. Cheap or not, you decide.


What does that equal in US dollars?

How long will it take to get them once we make our order?[/quote]
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will pay in dollars then ($ 400 = € 300).
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1124
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why I wrote $400 or €400 is beacause exporting outside EU is tax exempt (without VAT). No problem for a EU citizen to have them exported to US payng in USD and gamble with the risk of duty on the import as well as value added tax.

The minimum batch is 30 rods with the exact same measurements.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gegge wrote:
The minimum batch is 30 rods with the exact same measurements.


So now we come to a decision point.

Option 1 would be to maintain all OEM dimensions:
b.e. bore = 51.6mm
w.p. bore = 24mm
c-c length = 144mm
b.e. width = 27.9mm

Option 2 would be to build the rods to accommodate the wide range of available 87mm pistons with smaller compression height and wrist pin:
b.e. bore = 51.6mm (i.e. no stroke, use stock bearings)
w.p. bore = 21mm or 22mm (more options at 21mm)
c-c length = 150mm (to accommodate lower cd of off-the-shelf pistons)
b.e. width = 27.9mm

Given the rising cost of OEM pistons and rings, as well as the significant cost of custom pistons, it might be wise to go with a 21mm pin and longer c-c length in order to use cheap(ish) off the shelf pistons. The pistons that will work won't be half the cost of new Diamond pistons...but maybe like 20-30% cheaper.

I'd like to do some calculations, because with the lower cd on these pistons, we might want to increase the c-c length even a little more than 150mm to get more desirable ranges of CR; not increasing the stroke will have a significant impact on CR figures, so I need to look at the range of available options and see if 150mm is sufficient or if a little longer would be better.

But as of this moment, I personally am now leaning more toward option 2 than I was at the outset of this thread...
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan

Been out of touch for a bit. Before we go toward option 2 please make sure that both NA as well as turbo pistons are available.
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tyfighter123  



Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally would want to do a set of each option if we have enough interest to get two batches.

Dan how does the cost of these custom made rods compare to your off the self rods?
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would only be interested in option 1. That would count for two sets from my end(myself and jonus).

Min
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