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fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Chrenan wrote: | | fiat22turbo wrote: | | Second, the harness bars you guys have will not work in a rollover, the force of a 2000+lb car landing on those single-sheer mounted bolts will merely snap them off or bend the bolts/structure until they fail. |
None of the bars pictured in this thread have been presented as "roll bars" by the people posting or using them, so I'm not sure who you are arguing with. A roll cage provides roll over protection, as I stated above, everything else is a harness bar.
The advantage to the type of bars posted is that you can attach the harnesses directly to them. Most harness bars (think Brey Krause, Weltmeister, etc.) are harness guides. The shoulder straps run over the bar and down to the rear seat belt mount points. As you know, the longer the run, the more belt stretch you introduce in an impact, so guide bars are far from ideal. |
You mentioned replacing an AutoPower Bar, and how this is much better. I was saying the AutoPower (if installed properly) is better than a harness bar for rollover and belt routing. Period.
I have a harness bar as well, I'd only use it for AutoCross as it isn't safe to use without better rollover protection.
Not to say that the stock belts are very good at this age, but that's just a matter of maintenance.
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
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Chrenan
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| fiat22turbo wrote: | | You mentioned replacing an AutoPower Bar, and how this is much better. I was saying the AutoPower (if installed properly) is better than a harness bar for rollover and belt routing. Period. |
I actually said I was much happier with this setup than the autopower. I then said both are worthless in a roll-over, they re-inforce the b-pillar and not the a-pillar. If you want roll over protection you need a ful cage welded to solid points on the body, not the floor pan and wheel wells, and it needs to extend to the front of the car.
I'm still not sure who you are debating with. Both are worthless in a roll over, you want a full cage if you want roll over protection.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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My bar is not a Redline, it was made by a guy in Ohio for almost half of what the Redline bars retail for. It is similar in concept to the Redline bar, but is less obvious when installed in the car, a fact I hope helps avoid unwanted attention from coppers. I wasn't aware of the Heigo bars until this thread. As Rasta and Chrenan have mentioned, my objective was primarily to accommodate 6 point harnesses, not to provide rollover protection. I'm not planning to competitively race this car, so rollover protection isn't what I was after.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Chrenan
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 3903
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nice work Dan, a very creative solution!
I just put the pictures here since Brock wanted to see them and he doesn't frequent rennlist or pelican.
I seem to be the target of roll over debate even though I didn't call it a roll bar or mention roll over protection, not sure what that is about.
Hopefully you'll keep posting project updates on the other boards so I see them, I'm only on here a few times a year now.
Later 924 folks.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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My comments were't meant to come across as raining on anyones parade, although re reading my own post it does come across this way.
The Heigo and Dan's bars look good and serve a purpose for anyone not wanting to weld in a cage as I did, and cut up carpet to fit. Once in they will both look good, add to harness safety, and improve stock roll over protection.
Having seen how easy it is to flip a car at a track days/sprints where the driver wasn't really pushing too hard, I decided to go full FIA spec as added insurance to my life cover!!
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | | Having seen how easy it is to flip a car at a track days/sprints where the driver wasn't really pushing too hard, I decided to go full FIA spec as added insurance to my life cover!! |
This is interesting. . .I've seen PLENTY of totals, but I have never seen a car upside down at an amateur event.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Carrera RSR wrote: | | Having seen how easy it is to flip a car at a track days/sprints where the driver wasn't really pushing too hard, I decided to go full FIA spec as added insurance to my life cover!! |
This is interesting. . .I've seen PLENTY of totals, but I have never seen a car upside down at an amateur event. |
Heres an event I was involved in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBARP53u3ho The Escort had a cage which was a good job!
Another on my local track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCP4F6P9zXw
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Yikes, they coned the course right toward that berm. . .FAIL.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: |
Yikes, they coned the course right toward that berm. . .FAIL. |
I don't see it as a fail???!!!
Plenty of sprints and hill climbs here have 'obstacles'. Thats racing!! Although we do have a safer than safe culture in the UK on many levels, there still has to be some 'risk' in life. All too boring otherwise. You can't have 200 metre run offs everywhere!!
Prescott http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjzwssFlc2o&feature=fvwrel
Shelsley Walsh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaPomrnhzHk
Berg Cup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aiCMKRI_g&feature=fvsr
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11723
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Carrera RSR wrote: | | Plenty of sprints and hill climbs here have 'obstacles'. Thats racing!! |
Understood, but safe course design includes safe runoffs. Sending cars straight at a berm right at the edge of the track, where a minor off practically guarantees a rollover, is an error.
They're just cones, after all. . .it would have been easy to set them up more safely.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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