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Cadillac swap **** 56k warning****
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macBdog  



Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 1111
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick note to say awesome thread, I'm about to do an SBC conversion and some of this info is invaluable, cheers.
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1973 911E with EFI
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
















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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just need to say,I have now been a member of the board for one year,and have not been banned,suspended,whipped,beaten,or punished in any kind of way.

The pictures in the last post,are the latest,of what I call "The Evolution of the engine mount".I'm sure I have mentioned before,I always show the good,the bad,and the ugly.I have never posted a "posed" picture in this thread.What You see,is what it is,unslaged welds,weld splatter,rust,dirt,I don't hide anything.It's all part of the process and something I want to reflect on in the future,when the project is finished.After all the detail work is completed,I think the Qaulity will meet most people's standards,considering this project was never ment to have the level of presentation required for a true show car.

A few notes about the mount.....
The urethane "biscuits" are a common off the shelf,Carquest stocked item.(made in Thiland )The large biscuit is about 2'' OD and the small is about 1.5'',those measurments are plus several thousanths,as I'm sure they are metric.The uncompressed thickness of both,is about .800''and I'm using a 7/16'' Dia. bolt,which fits very snuggly,as again I'm sure the hole is probably metric. They will not be used in the fashion,which they are mounted in the pictures.They will set in "cups" tach welded to the "perches",the cups will be made up of sections of pipe with an Inside Dia.roughly matching the Outside Dia of the "biscuits"and will have a depth of about .250''.This will prevent any movment on the perch and also prevent the base of the biscuits from "mushrooming" when compressed.The bolts in the pictures will not be used as they are just hardware store junk used for mock up.

As far as the fab work goes,I'm pleased with the how the fitting and welds turned out,as it may be the limit of my skill level and available resources,so I can live with it,as it may be the best I can do.

I want to mention,as some already know,and if not,I'm sure you will be pleased to hear,I gave the Rochester carb," The Spanish Archer".I will now be using the port fuel injection that came with the caddy engine.This was made more practical in the last year,because of the newly available software,which is a complete hacking of the cadillac ecm.

Sometime over the past year,I decided that my current oil pan was just not practical and was too poorly designed to function properly.I also don't think I could live without a dry sump system,simply because thats what I wanted.So I started buiding another oil pan for a dry sump system(this will be pan no.3 if you weren't counting)However it will be costly to complete,and will not be added untill after I have the car running.

I'll try to get this thread up to date as i have the time.Thanks for reading and like allways,all comments and criticism are welcome.

Thanks....
Chad
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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More "Evolution"....Or the Evolution continues....

I wanted to show everyone the "cups" I was talking about.I thought I should post this as soon as I could,because I'm sure I always leave many people confused with my attempts at explaining myself.

I made these from 2''and 1.5''ID schedule 80 pipe,cut into 1/4''sections.I put some tack welds on them after everything was bolted together to insure proper alignment.I hav'nt finished the ones for the smaller 1.5'' bisciuts,so the cups for those are obviously not in the pictures.

Thanks...
Chad





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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres something I've never talked about,but knew from day one, would need attention.
If you refer back to page one,you will find pictures of the caddy engine as it was picked from the boneyard(with the oil filter still on it).As this was a transverse mounted engine the oil filter "hung" from the back of the engine over top the trans.This filter base with a internal pressure bypass also provided the inlet and outlet for the oil cooler lines.

If you refer to page two,you will find pictures of the block without the oil filter base.The oil pump,pumps the oil through a tube,straight up and out of the block,then after it has made it's round through the cooler and filter, it is sent to the main oil galley under regulated pressue.very simple and effective system and also makes great sense to have such a design.

After looking at the pictures on page one, It's easy to understand,why the caddy filter base won't fit.I think the oil filter would be somewhere near the radio.

I was allways confident,that this could be corrected with something simple,but have skipped over it many times,because I have been between, deciding on using the stock oil pump or building a dry sump system.I finally decided to use the stock pump to get the project running or maybe even drivable before adding a dry sump system.

Heres what I've done...
After lots of measurements and cardboard templates were made,the basic shape was cut out with a bandsaw from 1'' aluminum plate.Then with help from a friend,the machine work on the original part was duplicated to use the factory seals.The fittings are the common 10AN which is found on a lot of aftermaket oil cooler and filter bases.Of coarse it has not been tested,but it seems to seal just like the original.There is only one fitting in the picture,because it was the only one the parts store had.When I go dry sump,the hole without the fitting will be plugged.












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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got back to finishing the alternator bracket,or should I say,it's closer to being finshed.most of the bolts in the picture are only for mock up,and not the actual bolts that will be used.






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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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sokol  



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Ukraine

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fastening on a beam - is not good!!
It very weak for this purpose!
I to myself cooked fastening to longerons!
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sokol wrote:
Fastening on a beam - is not good!!
It very weak for this purpose!
I to myself cooked fastening to longerons!


Sokol,There is some what of a language barrier,I assume you are using a translator.

I think you may be referring to the engine mounted to the X-member.I did give alot of thought to mouting the engine to the "frame"part of the body,like the original audi engine was mounted.However something compelled me to use the X-member as a mounting point.I realize,and It is also may opinion that this is "weaker" than the other option.

I also want to note that my cadillac engine was rated from the factory at 200hp@4100rpm-275tq@3000rpm. Those numbers are "Net" peak power levels as with all accessories attacted to the engine.I hope to improve those numbers,however the engine will never reach the power levels of most chevy V8s.

I also hope to get more input from other members about this subject.,,,Please submit all comments and criticism.

Thanks...
Chad
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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all 4.9 guys,over the last year or so,I've received many emails about the cam card I posted in this thread.Most have been confused about weather this was,what delta called their "street cam" or if it was the E303 ford grind that delta makes available for the caddy engines.I would think Scott and the other Delta cam staff have been asked the same thing.(I hate to think)

I want to thank everyone for taking interest in what I'm doing,however to save myself the time of continuing to explain this to each and every person,I would like to document it here for everyone to reference.

First thing,all the cam specs that you will find for the stock 4.9 cam are "skrewed" you will find these in the repair manuels and listed on many websites that contain the 4.9 engine specs.I say "skrewed",because the cam is measured in a way that no one else in the "real world" measures cams.

We all know that the 4.9 cam profile has a duel pattern,however it is in my experience and opinion along with several other 4.9 rebuilders.A 4.9 cam with considerable wear,will measure very close to the same on the intake and exhaust.Close enough,that it would be impossible to have any advantages or disadvantages of a duel pattern.My measurements,give or take .001'',has consistently been around 197 degrees@.050''lift and roughly .39x''valve lift.

The "street cam" that Delta sells is 203 degrees@.050''lift and .450'' net valve lift with the stock 1.6:1 rockers,however there will allways be some variation in Delta's regrinds.

I want to note that this "street cam" is what I installed in my 92 deville,It was a "drop in" and required no head moddification,even though the springs are close to "coil bind" and may also have been contacting the valve seals.Because of the caddy's non adjustable valve train,you would only need longer pushrods,but I chose to shave .050'' off the head,which effectively does the same thing.thus correcting the push rod length and at the same time raising the CR to about 10.5:1.I've put close to 10K miles on the engine since the overhaul and it has always run great without any problems.

The cam card posted in this thread,which is currently installed in the "Porsche swap engine"is my own custom profile.My "lodgic"was, I could go with .450'' lift and avoid adding larger springs and cutting the spring pockets,and bump the duration up to 215 degrees@.050 lift and still have enough low rpm vacuum to use the factory PFI.I wanted to avoid the extra cost of the spring mods,because I have planned a stage 2 for this engine (After I have the project running and drivable).Stage 2 mods will include a different set of heads with compession lowering mods and then the spring mods for a .500+'' lift cam with stock duration.

Caddy owner's have requested sound clips of the 4.9 idling and reving with a Delta street cam.Here it is....10.5:1 CR ,cam duration 5-6 degrees over stock and lift .050'' over stock.

Thanks...
Chad







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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do your motor mounts clear the stearing rack ok
im goin to be building mounts bout like that for my 3800
and want to make sure the rack clears
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77 porsche 924 Martini
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcadam1121 wrote:
do your motor mounts clear the stearing rack ok
im goin to be building mounts bout like that for my 3800
and want to make sure the rack clears





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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very nice work.

Min
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Min wrote:
very nice work.

Min


Thanks Min,I'm sure you already know I like the quote in your sig.

I "think" I have the engine mount close to how it will be.At this time,I don't see any reason to rethink anything regarding it.It all bolts together nice and is very very strong,maybe an overkill.Even though it is only mild steel,all of it,except for two pieces are .250'' thickness and the lower x-member portion is very well braced with gussets tying it to the x-member,which has also been reinforced with .125'' mild steel.

This is without a doubt,a durability upgrade over my first design with the two .500'' dia bolts passing through the x-member.The addittion of the three 2'' dia bolt through bushings should reduce some amout of vibration,of coarse,I wish It had four bushing instead of three,but it's obvious why that would not work.

I'm sure someone is wondering why I did'nt use the commercially available 3'' dia custom bolt through engine mounts,which are commonly used on roadsters and street rods,or just use two larger dia bushings.

Well it's obvious,that would have been way too easy!

It may have been allright to do that,but I worried because,all of the extra 1'' or more dia would be added outboard of the engine.I worried that would cause more limitation with the header routing.

Other than a little finish work and some paint,I hope this is the last of the engine mount!

Thanks....
Chad
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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
Burt Munro: Well, I'm planning on going, not stopping.
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PORSCHEV  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 1901
Location: Cedar Lake Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only mistake is that you are going to rely on the the mounting point of the Porsche cross member. The spot welds that hold this area to the rest of the uni body are known to fail under stress. Both Vaughn and myself had this issue racing the 924 platform.

I made the same mistake on my V8 install....I am sure I will have to make a change down the road.
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5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.
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