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morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

So...today i was at the track...we have a small track that we sometimes go karting on. The track is too big for the karts you can rent there and preety much too small for cars.

This is the track and this is the configuration we used:

I took the 924 and told myself i will go slow to prevent from spinning or worse because until now i've cracked the front spoiler two times and i really dont want any more of that...

I did 3 rounds of 5 laps each.

First round: i used a superior gear than normal to prevent wheel spin and keep the revs/boost down. I didnt get timed for that round.

Second round:
The tires were warm now and i gained more confidence in controling the car so i pushed it just a little more than the first round, using a bit more of second gear.
This time i was timed 51 secons (3 seconds slower than a 150hp preety much stock opel astra and about 4 seconds slower than my friend's 200hp+ corrado,both these cars had power springs)

The third round:
I was already preety confident in my driving and i started using second gear more and more...this resulted in massive wheel spin and a shit load of sliding....it was like i was driving on mud. I was fighting for grip...there just wasnt much grip...i had loads of 4 wheel drift coming from preety good front tires (Eagle F1)..the rear was always tail happy as i passed 4000 RPM as i used a probably bad tire(continental conti sport contact 1)

As soon as the tires heated up there seamed to be less and less grip.
And i was sliding more and more...however i could control it and it was very much fun !

The brakes worked superbly troughout the day and so did the engine wich with the Motul engine oil sounded like it was not even sweating and pulled very strong producing third gear drifts and @70km/h

As i was saying...i tried to use a superior gear to prevent spining around and/or crashing....however that still happend when i had the tires fully warmed up and i went for second gear instead of third expecting wheel spin but unfortunately i pushed the pedal a bit too much(got greedy on the slide) spun a bit, 90°, and the front wheels got on the grass. Nothing major except the fact that that idiotic front spoiler made contact with the dirt and cracked again.

This third time i was clocked at 50 seconds flat for 4 of the laps(still 3 whole seconds slower than an astra)...i spun out on the last lap when i should have taken it easy...thats it...never get greedy at the end!!!

A picture of the track with some detailed info on it:

Damage was made to the front spoiler and the front left fender wich had some paint cracked and got a little bit bended.
All in all...i had loads of fun but i am very unhappy with the performance...and ofcourse the stupid front spoiler being cracked adds to the "i've had enough, i'm selling it" feeling.

I will post pictures of the laps a bit later.

In the end...it was much much fun and i've had more fun than any of the FWD guys but i was a lot slower and i dont think that should have happend...not with the 50/50 weight distribution...fat tires...perfect alignment and a decently powered car.
I'm guessing that part of the cause is my driving style and lack of experience(but so are the others)...and part of it is because of the tires and track temperature...but part of it is because of the car being simply too old to compete with newer cars...

lets have some figures:
924: 1150 kg ~190 hp
G60 corrado: 1200Kg ~200hp
opel astra: ~1000kg ~150 hp

I'm dissapointed

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PORSCHEV · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:40 am Post subject:

What direction were you going..clockwise or CCW?
_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

CCW
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Rasta Monsta · Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11733 Location: PacNW

Can you find an instructor? Having some right seat input can really help out if you lack experience.
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Toofah King Bad

WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

i dont know about any instructors...never really looked for one...but its a good ideea.
Anyway..its not like i made mistakes, well except that spin, the car just lacked grip...and i could not drive it on serious revs and boost as it would just throw me out the track. What i need is a warm track and sticky tires for grip and then maby some lessons. In the end of the day, just before i spun it i was going more sideways than straight as i was using second gear. I cant belive what a shitty grip those tires have....i could not floor it at all...coming out of that last bend into the straight line, it was oversteering up to the middle of the straight.
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PORSCHEV · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:

I don't turn right. But that track seems to have more left/tight turns then it does right hand turns. I would set my tire pressures lower on the left side of the car.

What did you use for tire pressures?
_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

i used 2 bar all around.
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PORSCHEV · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject:

Bah 2 bar! We don't measure pressures with bars here. Or at least I don't.

_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

924RACR · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject:

+1 to what he said... or close to it. Our home track, Waterford, is mostly RH turns... we usually run the RH tires one or two pounds higher to accomodate the difference in heating... that way our tires come out about the same pressure, allowing us to work them more evenly.
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

ok so...giving this some tought...the problem is overkill...it has too much power and it cant put it down due to track temperature and shitty tires.
The slow time resulted from me using third gear insted of second for alot of places where using second would result in big gains. So what i need..is HOT good tires and concentration to be able to put the power down.

I just came from the body shop...we've reinforced the cracked spoiler and straightned out the corner of the front fender wich got a little bended.
Tomorrow we'll fix the outside of the spoiler and prepare it for painting.

here are some pics from the track.....oh man i love these cars...i simply love the way they move...the way they look...ok thats too much isnt it?

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PORSCHEV · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:56 am Post subject:

You don't need tires as bad as you need heavier front spring. See the way the front right is diving down. That makes your left rear loose grip as well as too much weight ransfer to the rightside. A heavier front right spring will correct this. Might not be fun as a daily driver though.

But thats the cost of a well handling race car.

_________________
1976 924
5 lug conversion, 17'C2 wheels,custom body work,327 vette engine.

1978-#53 "D" track racer.

fiat22turbo · Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4040 Location: Portland, OR

Good tires do help, up until they get overheated and become slimy. full-tread depth street tires can actually lose chunks of tread block because of this. So be somewhat careful and check the tire temperatures after some runs (use your hand if you don't have a gauge and compare the inside, outside and center for heat)

Here's a question, do you have a limited slip differential and/or a rear swaybar? The problem may simply be that you're unloading the inside rear tire and its spinning and without a way to slow the spinning wheel (aka limited slip), you slow down or spin out.

So you may have to adjust shocks, torsion bars, swaybars to reduce the rate at which the weight transfers. Try to remember that the weight will transfer anyway, but reducing the speed at which it transfers can allow you to put the power down coming out of the corner and by the time you straighten the steering wheel completely you should have most of the cars weight transfering rearwards.

Starting with the static weight distributed to maximize traction will help (that isn't always 25% on each corner) You can adjust the corner weight slightly with adjustable spring perches and torsion bar adjustments, but that is a bit extreme for a dual-purpose car.

Finally, an instructor (many track days have them available or you can make friends with one and ask him to come out) can help you with learning to be more smooth with the controls and to work within the limitations of the vehicle. Your job is to listen and apply it to the car.
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

It does not have an LSD but it has a rear sway bar.

The first thing that i need is heavyer front springs and a bigger rear sway bar. And some real tires...these overheated after 5x2 laps.
Thanks for the replies guys.
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