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ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

Seems like a really good idea, especially on boosted applications. Also seems like it would be VERY easy to implement on our cars, as there is no need for a TB spacer, only the intake spacer. Added bonus is that they would be universal across the NA & Turbo cars.

Reading material:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110474/article.html

Any body else interested if I can find a manufacturer (I already have one in mind...)?
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

Lizard · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

keep in mind phenolic is VERY expensive.
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3 928s,

pocketscience · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject:

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

I don't know yet about the material in bulk, but the online prices for a COMPLETE kit seems to be between $50-$120 depending...some on the upper end include spacers for V setups (i.e. two manifold spacers, one for each side), plus multiple throttle bodies, plus multiple gaskets, plus extended studs or bolts. Doesn't seem cost-prohibitive to me, and based on the potential benefits seems worthwhile on a boosted car...
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

Interested!

Might just be one of the best bang-for-the-buck ever!!

7hp and 17-29 deg Cels drop in temerature on a N/A small V6 indicates minimum the same on a turbo, probably a lot better since intake temperaturs on the turbo is way higher under boost!!!
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
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morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8879 Location: Romania

if it drops the temps...i'm in too.

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924RACR · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

Yeah, I don't care so much if it's phenolic or Delrin, but the concept itself (that of a manifold insulator) seems to be pretty sound. Vaughan, I'll add this to the list, and we'll discuss on Saturday

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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made

tuurbo · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

Good article!

Please count me in!

I have a question - here's a quote:

RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2636 Location: Australia

OK Dan, I`ll be in for one now you`ve got the ball rolling.

Should be easy and realistically priced by having a small run done on a CNC router. Very common these days as most plastics shops and bigger sign shops have them, as well as some specialist light engineering shops catering for electronic manufacturers. They can scan a gasket and write the program from that. How many can you fit on a 8 x 4 sheet?

Studs are no problem at all. I made mine using a length of M8 threaded rod (booker rod, all thread) and a hacksaw. Looks great, won`t rust, and has a low coefficient of thermal conductivity.

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

924aussie · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:16 am Post subject:

924guy · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:19 am Post subject:

I have considered this in the past, my ford probe responded very well to "pheno's" (at both the intake and tb) something I plan to investigate further down the road. I would think it would be fairly easy to determine if they would be worth the trouble by measuring the intake temp at the base of the manifold, then at the tb, have to see how much heat transfer were getting.

phono's generally reduce iat by 15 -40 degrees (depending on who you ask or what manufacture claims what.)
so id say a true iat reduction of of ten degrees or more would definitely be worth a bit of trouble, and we'd see a difference...
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78 924
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RC · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 2636 Location: Australia

Would dramatically reduce conducted heat but still be susceptible to radiated and absorbed heat being just below the hood in a hot engine bay. Would be worthwhile taking some measurements at the manifold and the ambient temp below the hood.

Forgot to mention before that I`m sure there is 2 different stud patterns, NA and turbo. IIRC there is about 5mm variation on some holes. Someone should compare gaskets if they have both. May require 2 templates/ programs or are you just looking at turbo ones? Possibly could look at a universal design using elongated slots?

ideola · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI

Now that you mention it, I think you're right about the different patterns. No matter, I have examples of both intakes sitting around, so we can either examine different designs, or a universal slotted design (good idea, btw!). I think the biggest factor here will be the material itself. Scanning a couple of different gaskets and doing the design work is a one-time effort, so I don't see that adding a tremendous amount to the overall cost.

If my assumptions turn out to be true (after discussing with a manufacturer), it shouldn't be a big stretch to look at versions for the 2.5L as well. From my research, no one else is offering this yet for that platform either (although I haven't been exhaustive in my searches, just preliminary indications). Expanding to the 2.5L crowd should help drive demand and reduce the overall piece price.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made