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My last real hurdle
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: My last real hurdle Reply with quote

I need to swap my 931 series I intake manifold and t.b for a series II setup that I have.My problem is; how to re wire the throttle enrichment switches.Instead of two little paddle switches with two leads each I now have a 5 pin sealed box ??? If anyone has done this succesfully before I would greatly appreciate the answer of where the electrical leads go onto the series II box.Thanks,Leigh.

I've worked for four days straight to install and fabricate ;

fabricated custom s bend bracket for to mount I/C,
intercooler installed in battery compartement,
all pieces of intercooler ducting cut and getting welded tomorrow,
two red lighted rocker switches installed in a pillar pod, (look great)
a pillar gauge pod installed,
a/f ratio and intake temp gauges installed in pods,
installed Jabsco pump in custom fabricated bracket under coolant res.,
ran power lead from battery in rear to new multi bus under dash,
installed brain box and wiring for intake temp gauge,
installed new j-pipe with flexi ss braided section, (came out great)
all assorted running wiring,soldering,taping,zap strapping etc.

tomorrow I ;

re and re the manifold and all that's involved with that,
install and wire two stage boost control unit,
replace ox sensor and wire to a/f ratio gauge,
and have a beer.It's Friday.
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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macBdog  



Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 1111
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ITS GONNA BE SWEET!
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1979 931 with a 350 chev
1973 911E with EFI
p-talk wrote:
I'm still convinced the word 'Porsche' makes people crazy in all kinds of ways
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9439
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be easier to adapt the charge tube instead.
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White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
Porsche: It's not driving, it's therapy.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone must have done this at one time ?
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8030
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wiring diagrams show the series 2 tps has 3 switches built-in - idle, full load and acceleration. The 2 switches on the series 1 are for idle and full load. So it would be real easy to get wired - you'd obviously just use the idle and full load parts of the tps and leave acceleration unwired. The wire colors are the same between series 1 and 2 ("wt" for idle and "wt/bk" for full load) - just need to know where they'd go on the tps. I'll take a look at that tomorrow unless someone else wants to and beats me to it.

[Actually, it might make sense to wire both the full load and acceleration switches of the tps together in parallel depending on how the tps operates (if the full load switch opens when the acceleration switch closes, then yes). I'll let you know what I find.]
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoothie electrical problems like this are my Achillies heel.If you have the factory workshop manuals and can figure it out I will be forever indebted to you.I have the manuals and for a european switch it has 3 tabs on the tps but on a US model it has 5 tabs ? I was thinking that of the 3 on the euro model 1 of them is probably a common ground so I could put my 2 grounds from my 2 switches together then 1 wire on each of the others and have it done with.But with the US version having 5 tabs and me only having 4 wires,well i'm stumped.
I'm gonna try to post some pics of everything i've done so far as soon as I figure out how to work a pic hosting site flosho sent me.Doesn't leave me much time to study for exams.....oh well
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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Smoothie  



Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 8030
Location: DE (the one near MD, PA, NJ)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a look and only got reminded it's impossible to do anything with the tps without removing the charge tube and throttle body. You're in a much better position to check it out. -But I found some stuff in the books. Haynes page 286, fig. 13.3 shows terminals 18 and 2 and from another book, I found that 18 is common, 2 is idle, 3 is full load (fully opened). So with a little luck you'll find those numbers on the tps and can verify with an ohmmeter.

You can probably scratch what I said earlier about wiring full load and acceleration in parallel - as far as I can tell, the series 1's switches only indicated fully closed (idle) and fully opened (full load), so you'll only need terminals 18, 2 and 3.

The Haynes was actually of more use than the factory manuals in this case. The other book used was "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection" by Ben Watson.
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"..it's made in Germany. You know the Germans always make good stuff."


'82 924T, US version, dark green metallic, 5 speed Audi 016G gearbox
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I just spent some time mucking about with a circuit tester and both TBs.
Here it is;

The series I idle switch is normally closed until the arm moves past the tab and opens the circuit.The WOT switch is normally open until the arm hits it then it closes.

The series II switches (TB upside down with dust cap removed so I can see the mechanism) are labelled 44 42 3 18 2 . At idle with butterfly closed 44&42 touch to close a circuit,18 & 2 touch to close a circuit and 3 is open.As I move the butterfly,at about 1 or 2 degrees,both closed circuits open and stay open until the butterfly is almost at wot when 18 swings over to touch 3 and close that circuit.

So now I know which is wot,no problem because it closes the circuit between 3 & 18.And I can use either the 44&42 or 18&2 circuit for the idle.

So that's the answer everyone 3&18 for WOT and 44&42 or 18&2 for idle,your choice. Yeah !!!!!!

Thanks for helping guys,sometimes I let simple problems like this swamp me before I really look at it and discover how easy it can be.
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW I noticed that on my old TB still in the car the idle switch doesn't close like it should because the little actuating arm is worn too much.This could be why my car idles like a piece of crap,just a fyi for you 79 or 80 931 owners that may be having fuel,idle problems and have tried everything else to fix them.It's very easy to check just use a piece of wire to reach under and pull back the tab on the idle switch.If you can hear a click then the set screw is not out enough to compensate for wear to the actuating arm.That circuit should be closed at idle.(tab pulled IN towards the switch body)If you don't hear anything then your probably good to go.Leigh.
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11378
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: My last real hurdle Reply with quote

Kenodog wrote:
installed new j-pipe with flexi ss braided section, (came out great)


Have you got a picture of this? Who built it?

rasta
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Chrenan  



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 3899
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need some updated pics on this project?
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OutOfTheBox  



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
installed new j-pipe with flexi ss braided section, (came out great)


I had this done also, but the braided section was silver soldered, to the couplers. It didn't take long to melt off

Fine for NA stuff, but silver solder anywhere near the turbo/manifold, just gets soft(only good to 800degC).

Make sure its tig welded, or crimped.


Last edited by OutOfTheBox on Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2368
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrenan wrote:
I think we need some updated pics on this project?


pretty sure keno has posted updated photo's and a dyno sheet after this project was completed.

Min
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1980 n/a with EDIS and Megasquirt II Injection. 7 different colors and counting.
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I finished all that stuff last year! I haven't done anything else to it since then except drive it. Ahh,good times.I just sold my truck last weekend and am now in the process of looking for a suitable,turbo-able MX-5.My goal is 300 whp and 2000 lbs.,should be sweet.

Rasta I had a buddy TIG weld the flex piece in.It works wicked good.When and if I build a new exhaust manifold I will also weld a flexi piece into the turbo to catalytic exhaust pipe to help save the manifold from cracking.
_________________
1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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Kenodog  



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2584
Location: Vancouver,B.C.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some pics fer ya,
[url][/url]
[url][/url]php?image=931ic3140hi5.jpg][/URL]
[url][/url]
[url][/url][IMG][URL=http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=931ic3006vy7.jpg]http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4742/931ic3152ex1.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL][url][/url]
_________________
1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2008 GS500
2016 DR650
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
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