924Board.org

[timstar924]

i read my haynes manual and i took a look at my car and i see where the clutch cable comes out uner hte hood and connects too but the thing is i am not too shure once disconnect it how i'm going to exactly put it back together like the distance between the lever and the top it has to be the exact distance. Also how do i remove the cable the part that is connected to the pedal its a super tight area and i can't see i guess i'll have to use a flashlight but i don't know if it is big enough for me to work on with a wrench. Also i'm not sure how much the cable has to be pulled out on each side when it is connected before the pedal is depressed. oh an i need tools but i'm not sure what tools to buy, by looking at this i can see that lifting the car won't make any differenc in this job so i don't need jacks but i need the right size wrenches and i think i will need small size (lenght wise ) wrenches to work in the tight spots.

thanks.

[timstar924]

ok i removed it it was pretty simple. i just hope i isntall it corretly, like the distance beween the lever. Alo my old clutch cable the insulation is ripped up and it is a little stiffer than my new one but i really don't think the new one will solve the problem of my stiff clutch pedal.. because my pedal was extremely stiff and i don't see the cable causing it, i think it has to do with something else like the lever that the cable is pulling is probably the probem... i don't know. I hope the new cable makes a difference.....

[Khal]

Good for you You're on your way now!

Remember, have patience. Take a good, long look at things.

Maybe you can check the action of the pedal and/or levers without the cable connected?

And it may well be the cable. Don't discount it until you've installed and tested the new one. Sounds like the old cable was pretty cruddy, it may not have been moving freely...
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'80 924 Turbo

[timstar924]

i already installed it and it seems to work ok but i'm not sure. the clutch pedal is still hard to press down but better than before and it doesn't feel like it gets stuck half way down and it doesn't squeek on its way down and then up. i'm pretty happy. The thing is i measured (with a ruler) the distance between the clutch lever and bracket and its like 16-16.5 cm i think and its suppose to be 13.8 +/- 2mm so its like over 1cm bigger distance... to adust the lever to be higher up so the distance is less you have to open the clutch bellhousing it say and do and bunch of shit i don't want to do this if it is not absolutely necessary. Also it says the clutch freeplace, the amount you can move the cable before the cable is pulled i think, right now there is no clutch freeplay. Do you have to fix this too?

.




Also the plastic hook thing that screws onto the end of the cable that hooks onto the pedal is the same old one that i had on the old cable which i took off. the hook i think is plastic on the outside and metal inside? anyways it looks like it isn't strong and could break easily from pushing the pedal down all the time. Also i'm not sure if it is perfectly straight or on a bit of an angle when hooked on the pedal. I'm worried that if this plastic hook breaks i won't be able to find another one. Do you guys know if they sell replacemt plastic hooks? and can the plastic ones break easily?


thanks for all the info khal, i still need to lift my car for other things , i saw these rubber ramps for sale they are 30 bucks each and they are made out of tire ruber and you drive up it and the top part is shpaped like to hold the tire. Not too sure if this is safe if i drive the front or back of my car onto it and put it into gear and enage the emergency breaks. Is it possible for the ar to fall of the ramps or for it to roll back (like the breaks fail). I just want to be safe cus the 924 is pretty lock to the car especially lower part of the engine is low enough to the ground to crush my head if the fell down or rolls

[kaffine]

Glad to see you did it yourself.

Yes you need to get some free play in the clutch pedal. If you don't you can burn the clutch up since it wont be fully engaged it's also rough on the throw out bearing.

When working under a car it is always best to use a set of wheel chocks and good saftey stands.
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80 924
80 931

The best desciption of an atom boils down to something unknown is doing we don't know what.
Sir Arthur Eddington

[timstar924]

i think there is actually some freeplay put less than 20-25mm its like 10 or 15 mm again does this matter. Also i noticed that i have to push pretty damn hard on my shiter to get it into reverse , could be maybe tranny fluid? Also if the adjustment of the clutch lever isn't correct can it cause the clutch to get messed up or worn out. cus i guess if the lever is too low the pedal will have to go down further to release the clutch but i don't konw if 2-3 cm makes a difference. I backed my car out of the drive way and the clutch engaged after letting go of the pedal less than half way up i think. This is also my first stick car , is it ok to give the car gas when the pedal hasn't fully engaged the clutch yet but it starts to move but very slowly cus its not fully engaged, does this wear the clutch out or ruin it. Cus when starting to move forward or reverse i rev the engine a bit before the clutch is engaged and when it reaches the point that it starts to engage i rev the engine but the car moves very slowly compared to the engine until i fully release the cable when it fully engages. Is this ok?


sorry for all the questions .

[Khal]

OK, mate! That's really good to hear! See, you'll be seasoned mechanic in no time. Not so hard really, is it? Just saved yourself a bunch of dollars, too!

As for the adjustment, I'm sorry but I just don't know. I suspect adjusting it will have something to do with the locknuts on the bracket, though... -nick, you've done this, what's the story?!
And yes, you should have some free play in the pedal before the clutch is actually engaged/disengaged. Again, this is probably an adjustment made on the bracket.
I imagine if you tighten or loosen the locknuts, it will give the cable more, or less, slack. But don't hold me to it, I've never done it.

I'm sure one of the blokes here could supply the hooks you're talking about, from a parts car. Dunno about it being on straight. -nick, again?

I like the ramps 'cause they're easier and, IMHO, a little safer than a jack and stands -though if you jack the car and seat it on the stands properly it's very safe.
It'd be damn near impossible to knock the car off ramps. But yes, it could roll off them if the brakes fail, and it wasn't in gear, and someone/thing gave it a good nudge... Using wheel-chocks is always a good idea.
The steel ramps have a lip on the top front and back, so the wheels will not easily roll off them. Still, use wheel-chocks.

By the way, you mentioned a leaking coolant hose? Have you fixed this yet? I ask because it's probably a good chance to flush your cooling system. The Haynes should detail the procedure.
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'80 924 Turbo

[timstar924]

i can move the pedal forward and backward with my fingers until becomes too hard to push any further so does that mean it has freeplay? in the haynes manual it says freeplay is the distance the pedal may be pushed before it begins to operate the clutch but i have no idea when the clutch is opperated. i already know my clutch lever is not the correct distance fromthe bracket where teh cable bolts onto. I think it is a longer distance than it is suppose to be so i guess that means the clutch will still fully engage fine but will disengage later than it should ? i don't know.

[gohim]

According to the service manual, you are supposed to adjust the clutch freeplay at the pedal assembly.

If the clutch cable has too much freeplay, then the clutch may still be engaged when you try to move the shift lever. This will cause damage to the clutch, and the transmission over time. If there is too little freeplay, pressing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor while shifting (the way you are supposed to) could cause overtravel, and excessive stress on the clutch shift fork (it could get bent, requiring removal of the bell housing for replacement), failure of the firewall where the cable passes through, or failure of the clutch cable.

I have always adjusted the freeplay on the clutch side (when necessary during the past 20+ years of 924 ownership).

You can do this in a few minutes, without climbing under the car.

Simply reach down from over the left fender, and pull up on the clutch cable housing. Check the clearance between the locknuts on the clutch cable, and the mounting bracket. The clearance should be close to 1/4". If it is not, loosen the lock nuts, and move them up or down the cable housing until the clearance is 1/4" when you are pulling on the cable housing.

[Khal]

Yep, sounds right (again, I don't know for sure). The pedal will firm up when it starts to operate the clutch.

The problem with the clutch not fully engaging/disengaging is that the clutch will "slip" and "burn out". You'll be able to smell it if it's bad enough!

But it's just a matter of adjustment.

You'll need more expert advice than I can give you... fella's c'mon, help the young bloke out!

By the way, check out "howstuffworks" and look up "clutch". It's a really cool site:

http://www.howstuffworks.com


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'80 924 Turbo

[timstar924]

haynes manual says you have to take the clutch bellhousing off to adjust the lever. I don't know if this is normal but the clutch lever had to be pulled up with pressure to get the cable ont he bracket, so it is already being pulled before before depressing the pedal. It was like this on the old cable and the old cable didnt' have the lever adjusted at 139mm from the brack it was a larger distance like i have it. it might have not been adjusted too. the haynes manual says that to remove the clutch bellhousing and adjust the lever so the pointed end is 138mm from cable bracket so i guess there is suppose to be no pressure at this point? when i put the cable into the bracket i had to pull with pressure toget the lever up and it still isn't 138 mm from the brack but about 2 cm oor more away.
I don't know if this has to get adjusted or if its fine.



for the coolant leak i saw more fluid on the floor today not much just a tiny bit but i could see the coolant running down the side of the big hose that is close to the ground which goes from radiator to engine. another guy on the forum said that it could be the water pump but i've no idea.

[Khal]

Refer to gohim's reply, above...
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'80 924 Turbo

[timstar924]

gohim i'm not sure what you mean by the clearance being a quarter inch not sure where your talking about. i think i'll have to take this to a mechanic to get it adjusted correctly cus i don't want to burn out the clutch or mess up my tranmsmission. i think my transmission is already messed up cus it wouln't get into 4th gear the one and only time i drove my car. also it seems to pull slowly in first and second gear. and the shifer has to be pushed hard to get into reverse. the haynes manual says you have to ajust the lever from the bellhousing first to be 138 mm from the cable bracket then you can adjust freeplay to 20- 25mm. i think its worth getting a mechanic to do it cus a clutch will cost me a grand.

the steps in haynes are confusing cus i don't know what a lot of the terms are :


Adjusting the clutch:

1)disconnect neg from battery
2)raise the vehicle and place it on jack stands.
3) remove the inspection cover from the clutch bellhousing
4) The adjustment of the operating lever on the clutch bellhousing must be carried out first.
6) Insert a large screwdriver throught the inspection hole and position the release bearing on the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate..
( i have no idea what the hell that means)
7) Turn the outboard lever until the pointed end of the outboard lever is 138 +/- 2mm from the lower edge of the clutch adjuster bracket.
8)Its now possible to adjust the clutch play
9) Loosen the lock nuts at the clutch cable holder.
10) screw the adjuster back and forward in its adjuster bracket until:

a) the point of the outboard lever is 138 =/-2mm from the lower edge of the cable adjuster bracket, and :
b) the free play at the clutch pedal is 20 to 25 mm. Free play is the distance the pedal may be pushed before it begin to operate the clutch.

I don't really get this. and there are no pics to show this.

[gohim]

Forget the Haynes Manual. The Haynes Manual is full of mistakes. What do you expect for $12?

When I first bought my Porsche 914 back in 1977, I used to follow the Haynes Manual (not knowing any better) until the fan belt broke of the way home from work one night. The next day, I went to replace the belt, following the Haynes Manual. The Manual stated that to replace the belt, I needed to place the car on jackstands, and remove the engine tin (sheet metal pieces that form a complete seal around the engine to the chassis). After struggling for a couple of hours, trying to figure out, and remove the pieces of the engine tin (the Haynes Manual neglected to say how to remov the tin), I realized that I could reach in from the front of the fan shroud, and install the new belt, without removing anything else. This took less than five minutes. Since then, I don't trust the Haynes Manual, except as a roadside emergency guide.

Look for a used Factory Service Manual. You should be able to find on at a local swapmeet or on eBay for between $25-$75.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.

You already have a clutch cable in the car connected correctly, right?

One end runs to the clutch pedal by way of the firewall right?

The other end runs to the clutch. Are you following so far?

The end that runs towards the clutch has a threaded end on the housing that sits on a bracket. There is/should be two nuts on the threaded end. They are a cable length adjuster, and a lock nut for the adjustment nut. They both belong on the cable housing side of the bracket. They are not meant to be used to hold the cable to the bracket. The length of the cable is adjusted by screwing the nuts onto, and off of the threaded portion of the cable housing, lengthening, and shortening the cable length by allowing the threaded portion of the cable to slide through the hole in the bracket, and onto the side of the bracket towards the clutch.

The length of the cable between the firewall and the bracket is not critical. Making the length of the cable the specified length is not necessarily going to make your clutch adjustment correct. The only way to have the correct clutch cable adjustment is to adjust the the clearance between the locking nuts and bracket to 1/4", which should give you the correct clutch freeplay. When the clearance cannot be adjusted to 1/4", then the clutch is worn-out, or something is broken.

Again, the best/easiest way to adjust the clutch is to grab the clutch housing above the bracket, and pull on the clutch cable housing. When you do this, adjust the distance between the locking nuts, and the bracket to 1/4". If you cannot pull the clutch cable housing so there is 1/4" between the nuts and the bracket, the cable is too tight, you need to screw the nuts farther onto the cable (shortening the cable). If the cpace is larger than 1/4" between the nuts, and the bracket when you pull on the cable housing, then the cable is too loose, and you need to run the nuts off the thread portion of the cable end (makes the cable housing effectively longer).

Sounds like your clutch cable adjustment is too loose. That would make the distance from the clutch fork to the cable housing too long, as you observed.

This would also mean that the transmission and clutch are not being fully disengaged from the engine, even when the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor, and yes, that would make is difficult to move the shift lever when the engine is running, when with the pedal all the way to the floor.

[timstar924]

sorry gohim i'm still not sure what you mean by the clearance between the lock nuts and bracket to be a 1/4 inch. Are you talking about the lock nuts that hold the cable to the bracket on its way down to the clutch lever ? what exactly do you mean by clearance like from what point to what point. sorry i don't know what some of those terms refer too.